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Talk:Weapon master
Unarmed Why won't 'unarmed' work with Weapon Master? -- 24 October 2005 *It's a limitation of the NWN aurora engine. Hopefully their next generation of Aurora will have fixed this. -- Chrominium 14:27, 24 Oct 2005 (PDT) *Unarmed does not and should not work with the Weapon Master; the whole purpose of the class is developing skills with a particular melee weapon (fists not included). --Countess Terra 10:19, 4 January 2006 (PST) :*Not true - according to PnP wersion unarmed SHOULD work ... IIRC there was also special note about monks multiclassing to WM and back to monk. -- 5 May 2006 ::*NWN is not PnP. Live with it. GhostNWN 13:24, 5 May 2006 (PDT) *I believe it says to make ones weapon as an actual limb.. so erm.. training an actual limb wouldn't make much sense would it? -- 26 February 2006 :*Although it is true that NWN and DnD rules isn't always the same thing, I believe they would have done so if possible (as per the rules?). I think they've mentioned it a few times on the Bioware forum that it is a limitation of the Aurora engine than anything else. I guess if we have a 'Weapon Master' class in NWN2, then they would allow that class to take Unarmed as a weapon. -- Chrominium 06:55, 27 February 2006 (PST) Build tips The note on the fighter/wm levels doesn't make a lot of sense. you can make a fighter 11/wm 29 with epic weapon spec. just take epic weapon spec on a general feat level where you take the fighter class. Also, the 40 level limit will make a 31 wm not possible. I'm not sure we need notes that point at specific builds, since there are loads and loads of possible combinations which will lead to lots of confusing notes. I'd suggest just leaving the first sentence that mentions that only fighters can take weapon spec. -- Jjjhhhlll 11:42, 26 December 2005 (PST) :Well, I tried to clean up the language, but I didn't put too much thought into if it made sense. I don't mind specific builds tips or other info in the notes section. Feel free to clean it up or add to it. If it's useless, feel free to remove it. -- Alec Usticke 12:17, 26 December 2005 (PST) The note about the weapon master skills should be dropped - the wm isn't the only class (shadowdancer!). Also the last AB increase is at level 28.--Kamiryn 17:02, 26 December 2005 (PST) Multiple weapons of choice When you take a second Weapon of Choice, does all WM feats previously taken for the other weapon also apply to the the second (Increased multiplier, ki damage, etc) ? -- 10 April 2006 *Yes it will GhostNWN 11:40, 10 April 2006 (PDT) Epic level Weapon Master The most recent edit says that superior weapon focus works for every 5 levels past WM 10. I'm quite sure this is incorrect, could someone verify and confirm accuracy? Harleyquin 04:22, 16 March 2007 (PDT) *I've identified the source of the edit, someone's lifted the info off Bioware's official Hordes website and its blurb on the Weapon Master. I'm still sure that the edit is erroneous. Harleyquin 04:37, 16 March 2007 (PDT) Progression table I don't see why the possibility of taking a second weapon of choice should be highlighted in the table. After all, that's already covered by "bonus feat" -- you get a bonus feat, and one possibility for it is another weapon of choice. Why make a note that you can take a weapon of choice at level 13, but not a note that you can take Epic Toughness? (They're both choices for the bonus feat, and you're not forced to take either of them.) Also, why only have such a note at level 13? You could delay the second weapon of choice until level 16. Or you could take a second weapon of choice at level 13, and a third at level 16. I think it's just too much to put in the table. "Weapon of choice" is listed as one of the epic bonus feats, and there's a note under the table highlighting the fact that you can take this feat multiple times. (Come to think of it, there's an improved version of that note under the feat. I'll copy that over next.) Why does it also need to be in the table? --The Krit 15:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Improved critical A recent edit added :Improved Critical in the weapon of choice must be taken prior to receiving the Ki Critical feat at weapon master level 7 in order to achieve maximum threat range. Not having this feat prior to weapon master level 7 will result in a non-optimal threat range. However my test with a shortsword has shown this statement to be false. Could the poster please explicate the meaning of the post? Otherwise I suggest it be deleted. WhiZard 02:28, 24 October 2008 (UTC) *Addition was deleted. I have tried all the different crit ranges in weapons and all of them are the same regardless of the timing of the improved critical feat. --WhiZard 24 October 2008 Human weapon masters Another questionable edit (if you are going to edit at least post an explanation on the discussion justifying changes like this). "(humans can achieve this as early as level 6)" was appended to: :A fighter makes a very strong candidate for becoming a weapon master. All of the required feats are on the fighter bonus list, and a dedicated fighter can take his first level in weapon master as early as level 7 If you mean humans can get all pre-reqs at level six, then any race can also achieve this (dodge, mobility on level 1, weapon focus level 2, expertise level 3, spring attack level 4, whirlwind attack level 6). If you mean humans can take a WM level on level 6, then spring attack would be needed as a bonus feat on level 4 (because of the 4BAB requirement) and whirlwind attack will be needed as a bonus feat on level 5. Thus fighter 1 would be needed on character level 4 and fighter 2 on character level 5 and the previous three levels would need to be of a 1/1 BAB class with at least one bonus feat of either dodge, mobility, expertise, or weapon focus (a human would only naturally get 3 of them in the first 5 levels); which there are none. If you mean that someone can take a WM level with an item giving the feat whirlwind attack, then any race can take WM at level 6. Unless the poster wishes to justify the comment, I will be removing the addition shortly. WhiZard 21:51, 12 April 2009 (UTC) *Addition removed WhiZard 22:18, 12 April 2009 (UTC) * I disagree with the request for posting an explanation justifying the addition of new info at the time the new info is added. People should feel free to add information that they believe is correct. (Assuming good faith, how would the person who added that info know that the edit was questionable?) Posting an explanation for undoing someone else's changes is a good idea, but every edit does not need to be justified on the talk page. --The Krit 01:04, 1 May 2009 (UTC) The 11:12, 2014 January 1 edit points out a slight issue with the earlier version: The earliest WM level can be taken at level 16 without any bonus feats, but mentioning that in the same comment mentioning the utility of fighter bonus feats may make some readers forget that the extra feat given to humans is also a feat that may be used to meet prerequisites, as are CoT feats, etc. I will split the comment into two parts in hope of avoiding that confusion. - MrZork (talk) 07:14, January 2, 2014 (UTC) *BTW, it occurs to me that the earlier versions of this section likely evolved from Bioware's "Tip" in the HotU manual. But, since the edits have long since ceased preserving that tip verbatim, I assume splitting it is okay. The title of the section might be changed as well (perhaps "Tips: Meeting WM prerequisites" or something). - MrZork (talk) 07:20, January 2, 2014 (UTC) :* You can change "likely" to "definitely". ;) I forget when and where, but there was a discussion about whether or not the tips from the manual should be preserved. I think someone made a point about how unreliable the manual is... (and that different versions of the manual may say different things). --The Krit (talk) 16:32, January 18, 2014 (UTC) Whip Choice + Off Hand Results With my experience (not tested since the release of v1.69) if you select "Whip" as your weapon of choice, your off-hand weapon will receive the same bonuses to critical range, and if I recall correctly, also to critical multiplier, while you're using a whip in your main hand. I haven't tested since 1.69, nor have I tested with any other mainhand/offhand combination. -- 14:16, 30 June 2010 * I just checked what you said. It seems like that if your main hand weapon is your weapon of choice, then your off-hand weapon gets the Ki critical (increased threat range) too. It does not get the increased multiplier. It seems to work with every weapons, not just whips. Another interesting thing: if you equip a non-weapon of choice to your main hand, and your weapon of choice to your off-hand, then none of the weapons will get the increased threat range, not even your weapon of choice! Strange, huh? Praetor7 19:32, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :* And what about two WoC's, one in either hand? It should apply everything to both, shouldn't it? 21:47, May 25, 2012 (UTC) * Here are my results. I armed a helmed horror with a light flail in the main hand and a light hammer in the offhand. I gave the creature superior weapon focus, ki critical, and increased multiplier. I then ran two tests one with the creature having weapon of choice (light hammer) and the other having weapon of choice (light flail). ::Test light flail: The light hammer gave increased multiplier to damage bonuses only (all other damage calculations such as power attack, strength modifier, and base damage did not show an increased multiplier). ::Test light hammer: The light hammer had its critical range increased, used the +1 from superior weapon focus, and had the non-damage bonus parts of the damage with an increased multiplier. :In summary damage bonuses (only) should have the weird aspect of respecting the main hand's increased multiplier even when equipped in the off-hand. WhiZard 18:40, June 22, 2012 (UTC) * In summary, is the following correct? If dual-wielding two weapons of choice, all feats apply normally. If dual-wielding with a weapon of choice in the main hand, some benefits get transferred to the off-hand. If dual-wielding without a weapon of choice in the main hand, an off-hand weapon of choice loses some benefits. --The Krit (talk) 18:36, July 18, 2012 (UTC) :* I've looked into this a little more extensively with other critical ranges and multipliers, and it seems the pecularity encountered has nothing to do with the weapon of choice feat or its supporting feats. Off-hand weapons use the critical multiplier of the main-hand weapon for non-physical damage. Physical damage uses the critical multiplier of the correct weapon. Thus a warhammer (main hand) and kukri (off-hand) will multiply the kukris non-physical damage by three on a critical hit. All that weapon of choice and increased multiplier do is to highlight this game design bug. WhiZard (talk) 20:44, July 18, 2012 (UTC)